I hope paper writing is going well. If you need a break, get an early start on the next installment of Nathaniel Mackey's Eroding Witness.
Since we still need to discuss those I said to focus on for our previous class, I'll only list a few more to focus on for our last class, though I'm not sure we'll be able to get to them all:
"Poem for Don Cherry"
"Outer Egypt"
"Ohnedaruth's Day Begun"
"Falso Brilhante"
Looking forward to our conferences!
Wednesday, April 15, 2009
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
Mackey poems
Hi all,
For Tuesday, 4/14, you'll be reading the first half of Nathaniel Mackey's book of poems, Eroding Witness. I'd like you to focus especially on the opening statement by fellow poet Michael Harper, "Ghede Poem," and all of the "Song of the Andoumboulou." If you don't print all of the poems, these are the ones you should print and bring to class.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the end of The Woman Warrior and on Kingston's essay, "Cultural Mis-Readings."
See you tomorrow,
Sarah
For Tuesday, 4/14, you'll be reading the first half of Nathaniel Mackey's book of poems, Eroding Witness. I'd like you to focus especially on the opening statement by fellow poet Michael Harper, "Ghede Poem," and all of the "Song of the Andoumboulou." If you don't print all of the poems, these are the ones you should print and bring to class.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the end of The Woman Warrior and on Kingston's essay, "Cultural Mis-Readings."
See you tomorrow,
Sarah
Tuesday, April 7, 2009
A Structuralist View of Woman Warrior
As a first generation (I think that’s what we decided?) Chinese American, Kingston is in an interesting place. She is fluent in both Chinese and English, but she obviously struggles with the translation of meaning between the two languages. It is easy to translate words—the word might be different (the signifier), but the object (the signified) is theoretically the same: a tree is theoretically always a tree. However, Kingston struggles with this: objects (simple signifieds) are easy enough to translate, but concepts and meanings and contextual, implicit, understood meanings cannot be translated. In their blog post, someone mentioned the disconnect of translating the two languages: “What’s the main idea? ‘I don’t know the Chinese words for it.’”
I think this translation difficulty is seen in one of the most common words in the novel: “talk-story.” Kingston does not use the word “story” or “oral history, which I think many people in the class would resort to, but rather uses this clearly un-American word “talk-story.” However, the way Kingston seems to understand the stories, it would be insufficient to merely call them a story or an oral history: it wouldn’t quite encompass the meaning or the importance of these spoken narratives. They are more than just talking or just stories: they are both narratives and lessons, and there seems to be no word in English which Kingston can use to as effectively explain the implicit significance she finds in these stories. Though I don’t know structuralism very well, I would think that it would argue that there is no English signifier for a “talk-story,” and that this Chinese concept / act is something unique to that culture which we, as English speakers, have a hard time understanding out of context. As a result, Kingston is required to find the words best able to describe the concept…but I doubt that we, as native to the US, will ever truly understand it. In many ways, we are incapable of ever truly understanding where Kingston is coming from—but in the long run, I think Kingston does a good job of trying to get us as close as possible.
Last, there is the theme of the power of words in the chapter “White Tigers.” Kingston seems incapable of fighting against the petty racism of her bosses, but she draws strength from words; she explains that “the reporting is the vengeance—not the beheading, not the gutting, but the words.” The power of words to exact revenge most powerfully is clear; however, it’s also clear that Kingston is struggling with the words: she claims to have “so many words—‘chink’ words and ‘gook’ words too—that they do not fit on [her] skin.” The structural harshness of these words alone—especially in the English language, with the hard k sounds and single syllables—is shocking, racist, and powerful. However, Woman Warrior is her act of vengeance: a written narrative exacting a permanent revenge. In her revenge, Kingston is so overwhelmed by the power of these words that she cannot etch them into her skin as Fa Mulan has, for she has too much to say: thus, we see one of what are probably many purposes in the development of this novel, in which Kingston attempts to find the peace that Fa Mulan achieved by returning home.
- Cari
PS: Apologies for the tardiness of this post.
I think this translation difficulty is seen in one of the most common words in the novel: “talk-story.” Kingston does not use the word “story” or “oral history, which I think many people in the class would resort to, but rather uses this clearly un-American word “talk-story.” However, the way Kingston seems to understand the stories, it would be insufficient to merely call them a story or an oral history: it wouldn’t quite encompass the meaning or the importance of these spoken narratives. They are more than just talking or just stories: they are both narratives and lessons, and there seems to be no word in English which Kingston can use to as effectively explain the implicit significance she finds in these stories. Though I don’t know structuralism very well, I would think that it would argue that there is no English signifier for a “talk-story,” and that this Chinese concept / act is something unique to that culture which we, as English speakers, have a hard time understanding out of context. As a result, Kingston is required to find the words best able to describe the concept…but I doubt that we, as native to the US, will ever truly understand it. In many ways, we are incapable of ever truly understanding where Kingston is coming from—but in the long run, I think Kingston does a good job of trying to get us as close as possible.
Last, there is the theme of the power of words in the chapter “White Tigers.” Kingston seems incapable of fighting against the petty racism of her bosses, but she draws strength from words; she explains that “the reporting is the vengeance—not the beheading, not the gutting, but the words.” The power of words to exact revenge most powerfully is clear; however, it’s also clear that Kingston is struggling with the words: she claims to have “so many words—‘chink’ words and ‘gook’ words too—that they do not fit on [her] skin.” The structural harshness of these words alone—especially in the English language, with the hard k sounds and single syllables—is shocking, racist, and powerful. However, Woman Warrior is her act of vengeance: a written narrative exacting a permanent revenge. In her revenge, Kingston is so overwhelmed by the power of these words that she cannot etch them into her skin as Fa Mulan has, for she has too much to say: thus, we see one of what are probably many purposes in the development of this novel, in which Kingston attempts to find the peace that Fa Mulan achieved by returning home.
- Cari
PS: Apologies for the tardiness of this post.
Monday, April 6, 2009
Where is Maxine?
One thing I have noticed as has progressed is the waning presence of Maxine's voice and reflections. "No Name Woman," although it tells the story of Maxine's aunt, really centers around Maxine as she shares the story her mother secretly told her as well as stories from her own childhood and adolescence. It is entirely from her point of view, and includes her speculations about what her aunt's story has meant and still means in her life. "White Tigers" is again told from the perspective of Maxine, and compares Maxine's own childhood with the journey of Fa Mulan, a woman warrior she dreamed of becoming. "Shaman" switches back and forth between Maxine's thoughts and her mother's thoughts and actions as a student in Chinese medical school, but all of Maxine's reflections are about her mother. The story focuses on Brave Orchid. "At The Western Palace" focuses entirely on Brave Orchid and her thoughts about her sister, her children, and her life in the United States. Though Kingston is writing the story, Maxine is only present as one of Brave Orchid's incomprehensible children, indistinguishable from her brothers and sisters.
It is interesting that these shifts in Kingston's book occur so linearly. It shows an obvious shift from Maxine's perspective to some mix of Maxine's and Brave Orchid's perspective to entirely Brave Orchid's perspective. Perhaps this is to make both characters' points of view more understandable. At the beginning of I had a hard time being sympathetic with Brave Orchid's traditions and parenting style, but after knowing her own history and experiencing one story completely through her eyes, her attitudes and actions become more understandable.
It is interesting that these shifts in Kingston's book occur so linearly. It shows an obvious shift from Maxine's perspective to some mix of Maxine's and Brave Orchid's perspective to entirely Brave Orchid's perspective. Perhaps this is to make both characters' points of view more understandable. At the beginning of
What’s wrong with Moon Orchid?
Moon Orchid’s primary problem is that her husband left her in China for thirty years. Even though he frequently sends her significant amounts of money (enough so that Moon Orchid didn’t work and her daughter went to college), Moon Orchid’s husband emotionally and physically neglected his wife.
But Moon Orchid has another problem: her sister Brave Orchid. Kingston portrays Brave Orchid as brave (go figure!), bold, and a tenacious woman who takes it upon herself to be responsible for the problems of others. Among the first lines we read about Brave Orchid describes her adding, “… her will power to the forces that keep an airplane up. Her head hurt with the concentration” (113). This description shows how Brave Orchid thinks she can accomplish the impossible by sheer will.
Brave Orchid brings Moon Orchid to California so that she can confront her negligent husband. While I am all for familial reconciliation, the way Kingston writes this chapter frustrates me deeply. The text reads as sympathetic towards Brave Orchid’s method. But this confrontation has the effect of blunt trauma to Moon Orchid’s psyche. After the botched meeting, Kingston describes Moon Orchid as having a pervading sense that someone is after her. She turns off all the lights in the house, worries that someone in D.C. wants her ashes, and becomes extremely sad when left alone. These symptoms and those described on pages 159-60 are typical symptoms of paranoid dementia.
My opinion is that this man doesn’t deserve Moon Orchid. After thirty years of abandonment, she should leave him in the dust, take the money, and move to Maui. But I wouldn’t force or coerce her into making that decision, and I think Brave Orchid makes a bad situation worse. I think it’s something like cowardice when Brave Orchid (or any instigator) encourages someone else to enter an emotionally vulnerable and dangerous situation that has can do no emotional damage to the instigator. Brave Orchid was delusional in thinking that she could hold up a plane by sheer concentration, and she was equally delusional (and insensitive) to think that bringing Moon Orchid to California to confront her husband would improve the situation.
-Mike
But Moon Orchid has another problem: her sister Brave Orchid. Kingston portrays Brave Orchid as brave (go figure!), bold, and a tenacious woman who takes it upon herself to be responsible for the problems of others. Among the first lines we read about Brave Orchid describes her adding, “… her will power to the forces that keep an airplane up. Her head hurt with the concentration” (113). This description shows how Brave Orchid thinks she can accomplish the impossible by sheer will.
Brave Orchid brings Moon Orchid to California so that she can confront her negligent husband. While I am all for familial reconciliation, the way Kingston writes this chapter frustrates me deeply. The text reads as sympathetic towards Brave Orchid’s method. But this confrontation has the effect of blunt trauma to Moon Orchid’s psyche. After the botched meeting, Kingston describes Moon Orchid as having a pervading sense that someone is after her. She turns off all the lights in the house, worries that someone in D.C. wants her ashes, and becomes extremely sad when left alone. These symptoms and those described on pages 159-60 are typical symptoms of paranoid dementia.
My opinion is that this man doesn’t deserve Moon Orchid. After thirty years of abandonment, she should leave him in the dust, take the money, and move to Maui. But I wouldn’t force or coerce her into making that decision, and I think Brave Orchid makes a bad situation worse. I think it’s something like cowardice when Brave Orchid (or any instigator) encourages someone else to enter an emotionally vulnerable and dangerous situation that has can do no emotional damage to the instigator. Brave Orchid was delusional in thinking that she could hold up a plane by sheer concentration, and she was equally delusional (and insensitive) to think that bringing Moon Orchid to California to confront her husband would improve the situation.
-Mike
Maxine and Swordswoman
I found Kingston’s comparison of Maxine and Fa Mu Lan to be incredibly interesting. At first glance, it seems like they could not be more dissimilar. Whereas Fa Mu Lan conquers armies singlehandedly, Maxine cannot even prevail over her racist boss. This seeming dissimilarity is resolved when Kingston writes that, “What we have in common are the words at our backs. The idioms for revenge are ‘report a crime’ and ‘report to five families.’ The reporting is the vengeance—not the beheading, not the gutting, but the words. And I have so many words—‘chink’ words and ‘gook’ words too—that they do not fit on my skin” (53). The crucial comparison made by Kingston is that both Maxine and Fa Mu Lan are burdened with words. While Fa Mu Lan had words of vengeance cut into her back, Brave Orchid crams talk-stories riddled with racial incongruities into Maxine’s head. These stories starkly juxtapose Chinese culture with the American culture Maxine eventually assimilates into. Her personal struggle lies in making sense of these stories through her depiction of growing up as a first-generation Chinese American. There is an essential difference, however, in Fa Mu Lan’s and Maxine’s struggles. Fa Mu Lan can return home after she has fulfilled her duty to exact her family’s vengeance. Maxine, on the other hand, seems to have so many words to confront that her struggle seems to be never-ending.
Disconnects
In Woman Warrior, there is a strong theme of cultural, and generational, disconnect. This is especially obvious in the scene where Moon Orchid comes to stay with Brave Orchid and her family.
As Moon Orchid gets settled into her new home, we see how her, Brave Orchid and the children each seem to live in their own separate worlds. Because of this, they are unable to communicate properly with each other and understand the context of their respective actions. Moon Orchid, although she tries, is unable to reach out and fully comprehend her sister's children. Their American upbringing is so completely different from the Chinese culture she grew up in that it is as though they come from another planet. The way Kingston describes these moments seem to really portray this disconnect: "Sometimes when the girls were reading or watching television, she crept up behind them with a comb and tried to smooth their hair, but they shook their heads, and they turned and fixed her with those eyes. She wondered what they thought and what they saw when the looked at her like that...They were like animals the way they stared" (133). We get to see, from how Kingston sets up Moon Orchid's perspective, the complete alienation that she feels from her own family.
Another form of the disconnect is the inability of certain American concepts to be translated into Chinese, and vice-versa: " 'What's the main idea?' 'I don't know the Chinese words for it' " (133). Mannerisms, etiquette, taste--these are just more elements that do not line up, and this does not provide any sense of stabilizing comfort for Moon Orchid. This eventually has a negative impact on her sense of well-being.
After the scene with Moon Orchid and her husband, we see her fall into some sort of extreme paranoia that had not been present before. Moon Orchid's inability to relate to the majority of the people around her contributes to confusion. Kingston describes this as her having "misplaced herself, her spirit...scattered all over the world" (158). The author really emphasizes the consequences of displacing someone and immersing them in a completely different world. Moon Orchid's sense of stability returns only after she (falsely) believes that the people around her in the mental asylum are the same as her, speaking the same language and able to finally understand what she is saying (161).
As Moon Orchid gets settled into her new home, we see how her, Brave Orchid and the children each seem to live in their own separate worlds. Because of this, they are unable to communicate properly with each other and understand the context of their respective actions. Moon Orchid, although she tries, is unable to reach out and fully comprehend her sister's children. Their American upbringing is so completely different from the Chinese culture she grew up in that it is as though they come from another planet. The way Kingston describes these moments seem to really portray this disconnect: "Sometimes when the girls were reading or watching television, she crept up behind them with a comb and tried to smooth their hair, but they shook their heads, and they turned and fixed her with those eyes. She wondered what they thought and what they saw when the looked at her like that...They were like animals the way they stared" (133). We get to see, from how Kingston sets up Moon Orchid's perspective, the complete alienation that she feels from her own family.
Another form of the disconnect is the inability of certain American concepts to be translated into Chinese, and vice-versa: " 'What's the main idea?' 'I don't know the Chinese words for it' " (133). Mannerisms, etiquette, taste--these are just more elements that do not line up, and this does not provide any sense of stabilizing comfort for Moon Orchid. This eventually has a negative impact on her sense of well-being.
After the scene with Moon Orchid and her husband, we see her fall into some sort of extreme paranoia that had not been present before. Moon Orchid's inability to relate to the majority of the people around her contributes to confusion. Kingston describes this as her having "misplaced herself, her spirit...scattered all over the world" (158). The author really emphasizes the consequences of displacing someone and immersing them in a completely different world. Moon Orchid's sense of stability returns only after she (falsely) believes that the people around her in the mental asylum are the same as her, speaking the same language and able to finally understand what she is saying (161).
Sunday, April 5, 2009
Maxine and Her Mom
It is not a myth that it is common for mothers and daughters to have strained relationships, especially during a daughter’s teenage and early adult years. In Maxine Kingston’s Woman Warrior, it appears that one of the reasons for the strained relationship between Maxine and her mother is due to cultural differences. By this I mean that because Maxine’s mother was raised in China and Maxine in America, their relationship suffers. Also a result of where each woman was raised, it seems that Maxine and her mother have little in common, while placing value on different aspects of life. While there are many examples of their differences, the first that comes to mind deals with Maxine’s mother telling Maxine that girls were not valued as compared to boys in China. Maxine’s mother goes on to say that “during the war, though, when you were born, many people gave older girls away for free. And here I was in the United States paying two hundred dollars for you." This statement by Maxine’s mother makes me believe that even though Maxine was born in the United States, Maxine’s mother still chooses to follow to Chinese tradition. It is also ironic to me that Maxine’s mother is complaining to Maxine about birthing her, yet Maxine had no control in being conceived.
Other cases of this occur when Maxine’s mother is not proud of Maxine earning straight A’s in school (because this was not valued in Chinese culture for a female) as well as when Maxine is described as being embarrassed when her mother bargains in department stores (in China this would have been normal, yet bargaining is generally not acceptable in the United States).
Other cases of this occur when Maxine’s mother is not proud of Maxine earning straight A’s in school (because this was not valued in Chinese culture for a female) as well as when Maxine is described as being embarrassed when her mother bargains in department stores (in China this would have been normal, yet bargaining is generally not acceptable in the United States).
At the Western Palace
In the section of the book, the struggle to assimilate is put into even more focus. Moon Orchid is brought from China only to be forced to see her husband who has found a new life as well as a new wife. Taking into account Maxine Hong Kingston's last line that states that all of Brave Orchid's children decided to go into math and science , the author seems to be emphasizing the need for strength when brought to a new home. Brave Orchid is the epitome of strength. She seems to never tire at her work and only complains about her sister. Moon Orchid is the opposite of her sisters power. She is distracted by shiny things, her sisters barbaric children, and is not even able to fold a towel properly without a mold. Moon Orchid does not have the strength to face her husband and is ultimately crushed by their meeting and ends up dying in a mental institution for her fear of being murdered.
Though it may be a stretch, I would really like to somehow incorporate this idea of needing strength to exist, things that we can also find in previous chapters of this book through the narrator and myths, as being opposing the ghost people that are mentioned throughout. I am not really sure how this would work, but it would be neat to find an opposing correlation between the western people even those that came from China who are now ghosts to the purer and more refined described people who have not assimilated. Perhaps viewing the ghosts as not true or only half people who have lost some of themselves and are bad for this reason and comparing them to people such as Brave Orchid.
If this is not very clear please please leave me a comment and hopefully we can get a convo going that might make this make more sense.
Thanks,
Joanne
Thursday, April 2, 2009
Seventh and Final Blog Post Assignment
By Monday, April 6 at noon: Those of you whose last names begin with N-Z, please post with your responses to The Woman Warrior and/or Chin's article. See below for jumping off points, which you are welcome to use or ignore at your discretion.
By Wednesday, April 8 at noon: Those of you whose last names begin with A-M, please comment on at least one of your fellow classmate's posts.
Jumping off points:
What does Maxine mean when she says that she and the swordswoman are not so dissimilar (53)?
What kind of relationship does Maxine have with her mother?
What is going on with the point of view in "At the Western Palace"?
What's wrong with Moon Orchid?
Why do all of Brave Orchid's children decide to "major in science or mathematics" (160)?
How does Frank Chin explain stereotypes against Chinese and Chinese Americans?
What do you think of Chin's definition of myth on page 29?
What is Chin's problem with autobiography?
By Wednesday, April 8 at noon: Those of you whose last names begin with A-M, please comment on at least one of your fellow classmate's posts.
Jumping off points:
What does Maxine mean when she says that she and the swordswoman are not so dissimilar (53)?
What kind of relationship does Maxine have with her mother?
What is going on with the point of view in "At the Western Palace"?
What's wrong with Moon Orchid?
Why do all of Brave Orchid's children decide to "major in science or mathematics" (160)?
How does Frank Chin explain stereotypes against Chinese and Chinese Americans?
What do you think of Chin's definition of myth on page 29?
What is Chin's problem with autobiography?
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